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SMH10 with iPhone

Ken Gillett

31. Mai 2012 10:30

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All the info I see relates to the use of the SMH10 with an iPhone AND something else, e.g. a Sat Nav or perhaps an audio player, but I am only interested in what seems to me to be the most blindingly obvious usage and that is - use the iPhone for everything. That's what I want to do. It is of course a phone, but it's also my Sat Nav and can play music. Although I don't want to be playing music the whole time, I want the possibility to be able to play it if I do want to. Anyway...

I successfully paired the iPhone and used it for Sat Nav, but at various times it would start playing music. I had no desire for it to do this and had to stop it every time. Usually it would start playing after first making the connection.

Then, after trying the intercom functionality with another SMH10, I found that Sat Nav instructions are not overriding the intercom. From this I deduce that the iPhone has been paired as an audio device which is the lowest priority. So it looks like I need to force it to use HSP or HFP instead.

OK, I think the manual explains how to do this, but why does it default to the least obvious device type. It's pairing to an iPhone - the clue is in the name. Why default to an audio player?

If I instead pair as e.g. HFP, what happens when I play music from the iPhone? I'm guessing it's low quality mono which is hopeless.

It seems to me that the simplest solution of a single device (i.e. the iPhone) to do everything is the most complicated to actually get working correctly. It shouldn't be like this.

I want to simply pair the iPhone and have phone calls and/or Sat Nav override the intercom and with music the lowest priority. But music must be stereo although the rest can be mono. Is this possible? How?

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11 Kommentare

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  Chris BeHanna 31. Mai 2012 13:11

  The SMH10 pairs with the iPhone using all of the following profiles: HFP, A2DP, AVRCP. Phone traffic goes through HFP, whereas it appears that all other audio, including voice cues from your SatNav app, come through A2DP. This is why the voice cues do not override the intercom. I don't think this is an issue with the SMH10; rather, it's an issue with how iOS routes audio from apps.
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  Ken Gillett 2. Juni 2012 08:30

  This is something of a major problem with using a single smartphone for everything. The Sat Nav will just be an app and hence it's audio will sent along with all other apps and not distinguishable from e.g. music. Anyone think of any way to get around this problem?
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  Serge Biro 8. August 2012 03:23

  I totally agree with Ken! I am also using an app on my iPhone for sat nav and it's too bad that the sat nav voice instructions cannot override the intercom conference.

  Because of that, I have to keep looking down at my iPhone all the time in order not miss turns. Not only is it very inconvenient, but it's also downright dangerous! There should definitely be a way to address this problem, and I don't think that blaming it on the iPhone/iOS is very reasonable. I actually tried to pair my iPhone as an HFP device, but the sat nav voice instructions are no longer relayed to BT in that case; so it just doesn't work...

  My case is even simpler than Ken's as I don't care so much about music. All I need is sat nav voice instructions overriding intercom. That's it. This could be achieved in a number of ways:

  • Enable the iPhone profile to have higher priority than intercom for any audio;
  • Enable the A2DP profile to have higher priority than intercom (I believe that a firmware update could add that feature very easily);
  • Mix the intercom and A2DP profile audio.

  For the sake of convenience and security, please do something about it. I'm sure that many current and future Sena users would benefit from it, as sat nav apps on iPhone are becoming more and more mainstream. I'm using a SMH5 by the way. I look forward to your reply.

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  Ken Gillett 8. August 2012 08:15

  I do understand that the problem really is not Sena's fault as there's nothing that can be done about the fact that iOS devices send SatNav instructions over A2DP. However, it's not entirely Apple's fault either as there's no obvious solution. Ultimately, there needs to be an additional BT profile defined for SatNav use so that all 3 audio types (Phone, SatNav and everything else) are distinguishable from each other. However, that's not going to happen in the immediate future.

  But in the meantime, it MUST be possible to improve the situation and I think mixing the audio would work. When I ride, I am likely to only want music when I'm on my own. If I'm riding with someone else with a Sena, then I want Intercom and I can forego music. In which case a solution would be to add an additional setting to MIX Intercom and A2DP audio streams. In this way, when on my own, music could play, but with SatNav instructions mixed in by the iPhone (or however iOS handles multi app audio, I forget right now, but it's the responsibility of iOS and not Sena). When riding with another Sena user, any SatNav audio would be mixed in with the Intercom which is what we want. IMO, mixing the audio is a better solution than a complete override anyway. If you did try to play music, that would also be mixed with Intercom which I don't think is ideal, but the user would have the choice to not use mixing if this was what they wanted to do. As I've said, not a problem for me as I wouldn't be trying to play music in that situation.

  I think this new 'Mix' setting should also reduce the Intercom volume to make the SatNav easier to hear. Not needed if playing music of course, but then I don't think that's a problem. If you don't want any of this new functionality, just turn it off and it'll work like now.

  This would not be ideal, but close enough and IMO, far better than currently where it's either Intercom OR SatNav and I've always thought that mixing the audio was a better idea. Also, it's just a firmware change so can be relatively easily done. It's the ONLY solution until either a new BT profile for SatNav is defined or Apple provide a switch to send SatNav app audio over HFP which in all likelihood is not going to happen.

  Would be interesting to get feedback from Sena on this. Is this a possibility? It's a very real problem and it needs addressing. It's not just going to go away. In fact, it'll be getting worse as more and more people recognise the obvious benefit of a single device (like the iPhone) providing everything. We need to start a dialogue with Sena to discuss how this could be implemented.

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  Chris BeHanna 8. August 2012 18:39

  Ken, you can mix as you've suggested if you route the iPhone through an SR10, and then pair the SR10 with the SMH10.  I don't do this, but I have had fabulous success running a Valentine One through an SR10--I can hear the alerts while in intercom mode, without dropping the intercom channel.  They mix just fine.  The drawback to this is that you do not get stereo music through the SR10--it connects via HFP to the SMH10, and HFP, sadly, is monoaural only.

   

  NOTE:  there is a fraction-of-a-second delay between the V1 alerting and the sound making its way through the SR10 noise gate to your SM10.  Your warning time is thus decreased by that fraction of a second.  If you pay attention, you'll hear the SR10 break squelch when the V1 actually alerts, and then you'll hear the V1 alert that fraction of a second later.  If you listen for when the SR10 breaks squelch, you'll get your fraction-of-a-second back.  Use at your own risk--I will not pay your tickets!

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  Ken Gillett 9. August 2012 07:55

  That's an interesting 'work around' but it does have that drawback you mention. What we need is for Sena to realise they need to do something about this and then, well, do something:-) It's an issue for any Smartphone user and that means the problem will only get bigger as more and more Smartphones are used.

  I remember when using a Windows Mobile with SatNav app (TomTom) with a regular headset and the SatNav audio could be heard on the headset. I assume the headset used HFP so the SatNav app's audio used HFP. If you try this with an iPhone, as has been mentioned, the SatNav audio does NOT come through the HFP channel. Mind you, I think that might have been before A2DP on the Windows Mobile. Certainly the iPhone had no A2DP at the time.

  Apple need to differentiate SatNav audio in iOS and in the meantime Sena can provide a software update that would at least solve the immediate problem. We need their help.

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  Ian Cameron 13. November 2012 02:54

  Hmmm... Before I bought the SMH10s and the SM10, I didn't think that maybe using my Nokia N8 for navigation might turn out to be problematic. Guess I'll have to test it on the way home from work tonight. I don't really want to buy a GPS device for navigation on the bike, as I already have the N8 with built-in navigation, plus a TomTom (which doesn't have bluetooth or audio out, so I can't use that on the bike, except as a visual device, or as a check if I stop because I'm lost).
  Luckily NZ is small so you can't really get totally lost - just head east or west and within an hour or so you're at the east or west coast!

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  Ken Gillett 26. April 2013 12:01

  Well, more time passes and still no solution. Not even a peep out of Sena who I feel are now letting us all down due to their refusal to participate in these discussions any more. Baffles me why they've taken this attitude.

  In any case, we still have this problem. Surely it can't be hard to mix intercom and A2DP audio? As I've already stated, this would be an even better solution than any current priority override implementation AND it would totally eliminate this problem with all-in-one phone/satnav/music players.

  Really Sena, come on, we deserve and answer at least.

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  Serge Biro 26. April 2013 13:45

  I fully agree with Ken. Meanwhile, I've come to realize that this issue affects pretty much ALL smartphones, and not only iPhones. I recently made the switch to a Galaxy S3 - Android also routes all satnav streams through A2DP (e.g. Google Navigation, TomTom, Navigon, etc.). I tried to find a workaround to reroute streams through HFP, no luck!

  So there we are. A product which prohibits the use of most satnav apps on smartphones while using the intercom. As an increasing number of riders turn to smartphone apps for navigation instead of standalone GPS devices, Sena base of customers will decrease proportionnally.

  I heard that most competing products don't have this weird limitation that Sena products have. So I'm very close to replacing Sena headsets with standard headsets capable to mix intercom and A2DP audio. It just sucks to have to spend all that money again. Since Sena is burying their head in the sand, looks like we don't have any other choice...

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  Ken Gillett 4. Mai 2013 15:32

  I have to say I cannot see how any of Sena's competition can function differently. There is currently no way for the SMH10 or any other similar device to differentiate between SatNav instructions and music.

  Here are some thoughts:-

  Sena provide a simple way to switch to different arbitration algorithms. I.e. there would be an alternative which would place A2DP at a higher priority than Intercom and the user could toggle between the 2 system by e.g. triple tapping the button on the headset. Not ideal, but would allow the most important feature, i.e. SatNav above Intercom. You could then switch back when on your own and just listening to music. To be honest, for me, Intercom and Music are mutually exclusive. If riding with others, Intercom is great and I don't want/need music, but if riding on my own, then I like music and Intercom is not required.

  A better solution requires the intervention of the SatNav app developers, but is better.

  I just did some tests and other apps are able to use HFP from the iPhone. I used my iPhone paired and connected to an Apple BT headset which is mono and NOT A2DP - most likely HFP. Music does NOT play out the headset but emanates from the iPhone itself - as you'd expect. However, Bria (a VOIP/SIP client) DOES send the phone call audio through to the headset. This is extremely interesting as it means that an app can decide which profile to use and that use of the HFP channel is not banned by Apple. What is more, when on a VOIP call (using the HFP Apple headset) and a cellular call comes to the iPhone, it overrides the other app until the call ends, then the audio channel is returned to the other app. In my case Bria got the channel back and I could again hear the audio for that call.

  This is GREAT news as it means a SatNav app could utilise the HFP channel for its audio and the iPhone would correctly arbitrate if a call came to the iPhone and the phone call audio would override the SatNav instructions which is what we want and how the SMH10 operates when using a separate SatNav device.

  To avoid complaints from other users who may not want to use their SmartPhone's SatNav app in this way, it really needs a simple option in settings so you can choose which audio profile to use. Not a hard task to incorporate such a change to the interface and re-coding to actually use a different BT profile is probably trivial. So what we need is to put pressure on the SatNav app developers to add this facility to their app.

  There really is no other solution. We are dealing with 3 types of audio. Phone, SatNav and everythingelse. They each require different handling, but with only 2 channels to play with, that's not possible. However putting SatNav in with everythingelse is not the best compromise. Moving SatNav to the phone channel is better as that allows the SmartPhone to arbitrate between the SatNav audio and phone calls - which they do (at least the iPhone does). In fact, why would you need anything else. The SatNav audio is all mono after all.

  The only drawback I can see is if there is any fundamental reason why HFP cannot be used for continuous audio in this way. Can anyone comment on this?

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  Andreas Pfeiffer 20. Januar 2016 13:29

  Hi Ken,

  I know this is not a new thread but it still might be of interest.

  I use Navigon app on my iPhone for GPS navigation and interestingly it uses HFP which means it will interrupt as desired. In addition it can also use A2DP if there is a communication open already. Meaning if I listen to music from my iPhone then Navigon will use A2DP in other cases it will use HFP.