Priorities

Kommentare

111 Kommentare

  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    The 20S was advertised as an intercom including a radio among other things... Who would have thought that in real life it actually is anything but that ?

    It's not that we, customers, can predict such behaviour when we buy those things. You find it out while using them for what they were made for. When you allready built them into your helmet, effectively inhibiting the possibility to return them.

    I distinctively remember the salesman telling me that at least Sena tends to listen to it's customers. Still...who would have thought...

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  • Vanisher
    Vanisher

    Any progress on this? It;s a REAL bummer that sena doesn't listen to customers but prioritize on new products. I tend to ride 10.000 - 15.000km a year together with my wife. And this is most disturbing because it makes the intercom worthless when navigating.

     

    Please react!

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    No, I think it is safe to say that Sena isn't going to grant us our wishes. :(. They don't repond to anyting anymore regarding this problem. It's sad...

    For as long as I still use de 20S I turn off the nav-instructions, when riding in a group.

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  • Hans
    Hans

    The reason I wait with the purchase of the Sena 20S is described here on this site and on other sites. As long as Sena continues to trouble, the sale of the Sena 20S will stagnate . I want to wait until April or May I buy something else other than Sena . People lose confidence in Sena . A couple of my friends now have the season begins purchased other communications. I use the communication professionally on my motorcycle (traffic safety business ) so I want to wait in connection with linking other brands.
    I now have a smh5FM that last a bit longer until I can buy another . The ball is now in Sena , keep or lose customers.

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  • Hans
    Hans

    Addition , what about the radio? Still no improvement?

     

    in the hope of a solution ,

    greetings Hans

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp
    I returned my 20S model 1406 and exchanged it for a newer model (1409). Radio is adequate now. Not perfect. Adequate.
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  • Peter
    Peter

    The reason I wait with the purchase of the Sena 20S is described here on this site and on other sites. As long as Sena continues to trouble, the sale of the Sena 20S will stagnate . I want to wait until April or May I buy something else other than Sena . People lose confidence in Sena.

    I am agree i will also wait until there is an solution  or buy an Cardo G9x

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    Peter, I think this won't be fixed. Not before May, not ever !

    In this thread (http://support.sena.com/entries/21596675-Priority-Selection), the issue is officially suggested to Sena. Contrary to some other suggestions, this one is still not planned or done so I guess Sena is done with this..

    I wonder how the new 10C handles sound / priorities.. I wonder if Sena picked this up at all... Well, I'll never know. They lost one customer at least...

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  • 308
    308

    @ Peter, I'm the one that suggested that back in 2013. Never happened. Was a simple fix for me. I just un-paired the 'phone' feature of my Droid. I don’t do phone calls on a motorcycle. But that's NOT the solution for others. A user selectable priority selection would have been the smartest fix. But nevertheless, here I am with some 5+ year old tired and worn SHM10's. Do you think I'm going to lay down $450.00 for 2 new 20S that 1/2 way work? Not in this lifetime....I'll either go back with some SMH10's, or go with another brand.

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    Trouble is... when purchasing ANY bluetooth-device, how can we even predict if it is designed by idiots ignorant people ? If the question "Will the intercom be useless if I use a satnav" is indeed a valid question from me to the salesperson, OMG ! What other questions do we have to ask to assure that we buy what we think we buy ?

    • Will the off-button also turn of the engine ?
    • Do I need a license to use this device ?
    • Will the unit explode in my face ?

    I don't know. The sky is the limit. Allright, allright, I'm being a bit cynical now. Nevertheless, it is saddening this whole story and the way it is ignored...

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  • 308
    308

    IMO, Sena screwed to pooch with the 20S. Way too many negative reviews for me too continue to consider purchasing one.. From my research, too own and use this device would be frustrating.  Each 'feature' of the device should have the option of being turned off. Especially this 'Hello Sena' feature. Reading numerous complaints specifically centred around that feature.

    They've packed 10lb of crap, in a 5lb bag. I wouldn't be surprised if the 20S 'project', is soon scrapped.

    I've decided to purchase 2 new SMH10's (while still available) to keep in reserve. I figure I can get several years from them, and maybe, just maybe by then Sena will get their act back together,  once again.

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  • Alex
    Alex

    I just want to emphasize what Ken and Marc have written. This is a serious bug. I would not have bought the Sena 20S if I would have known this before. I will not recommend any of my friends to buy a Sena if this issue isn't taken seriously.

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    @Sena: I really would like to know if this problem just doens't have a solution for the 20s (e.g. because of technical limitations), OR that you are not fixing it because you have other priorities, OR that you just don't see it the way we do. Maybe you are convinced that a satnav SHOULD interrupt an intercom ? Or that a satnav is not for listening to music ?

    Neither answer would acutally please me, but at least it is better then being ignored alltogether...

    @308: "They've packed 10lb of crap, in a 5lb bag"...I think you nailed it in that one :D  In what way is the SMH10 more satisfying than the 20S ?

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  • 308
    308

    @ Marc > In what way is the SMH10 more satisfying than the 20S ?

    Let me begin by stating that I don't own a 20S, but I do research, A LOT before laying down my cash for a new product. I was an early generation SMH10 owner (pre mico USB connector), and purchased one the the very first SR-10's that were released. I upgraded the non USB SMH10's to the later generation, and still have, and use the SR-10. Sena actually took several ideas I relayed to them about how to increase the usability of the SR-10, and implemented them. Specifically mixing of audio into the SMH10. Hats of to Sena for that.

    As for the SMH10...

    Very water resistant, as compared to the numerous complaints of the the 20S becoming a BRICK in light rain. I have ridden in many downpours with no ill effects to either of our SHM10's.

    Very good battery life.

    Intercom range of the SMH10 was somewhat exaggerated, but not overly exaggerated, like with the 20S.

    Stated features of the SMH10 actually worked quite well.

    Quality of hardware, and quality control procedures during production of the SMH10's, seemed to be much superior to the 20S production and QC procedures.

    Judging by the massive amount of negative feedback/comments concerning both the hardware, and software of the 20S, (not just here, but all over the Internet) Sena should maybe consider 'saving face', and starting over, with a better designed product, designed around what us RIDERS would like to see.

    Trust me, I REALLY would like to have the latest and greatest helmet Sena BT communicator, but when taking into consideration the numerous SERIOUS issues with the 20S, at this time, there is NO WAY I'd own one. Our 5+ year old battle tested SMH10's, although worn, and a little tired, are still getting the job done, pretty darn well.

     

     

     

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  • 308
    308

    Suggestions for the next Sena BT headset.

    # Scrap the FM radio feature. IMO, most riders are using a smart-phone, GPS, or XM type radio for radio/audio.

    # Create a truly waterproof housing.

    # Work on extending battery power consumption.

    # Let the user of the device select the connection priority.

    # Give every feature in the device the ability to be disabled.

    # Concentrate on development of allowing multiple non Sena branded headsets connections, instead of one as it now stands.

    # Cease over exaggerating performance claims.

    # Cease selling us products that are not ready for prime time. Paying customer are not BETA TESTERS.

     

    RANT OFF...

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    In respect to the 20s:

    • Water resistant: I used it in Ireland during some wet days. It didn't break down in the rain.
    • Battery life: Fine, no complaints there (I' don't know about the battery lifespan yet)
    • Intercom range: Yeah it's supposed to be 1.2 miles... well, let's keep it at a few hundred yards at best, on a highway. Just enough for me.
    • Statet features: As said; 10lb of crap in a 5lb bag (Voicecommands is a joke, but not worth complaining about)
    • Others things I hate: Different volume-settings for each sound-source (seemd a good idea at first, proves to be a nightmare in practical use), operation is much to fragile with heavy gloves, communication with the satnav and/or phone is just not reliable.

    I issued this prioritiy-problem as a ticket at first. The way it was handled was just plain insulting. "I should mute the keyclicks on the Zumo, so at least they would't interfere with the intercom anymore". Pardon ??? That is SO besides the point ! Oh yeah, and the promblem with the nav-instructions suppressing the intercom was dropped at R&D. Yeah right.

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  • 308
    308

    @ Marc The priority issue is sorta like when the SR-10 came out. I have mine connected to a radar detector. When the SR-10 connected to the SMH10, all all other comms were LOCKED OUT!  I explained to Sena at that time, by the SR-10 doing this, there was no way I could relay this info the other riders. They first responded that there was no way they could mix the audio into an ongoing comm connection. I called BS on that statement. Low and behold, several months later, a new firmware release mixed the audio into a conversation, exactly as  I suggested.  But they NEVER did address the issue of a cell phone connection being priority. Luckily for me, there is a setting in the BT on our cell phones that allows us to disable the phone call connection to the SMH10.

    Glad you have not experienced the rain = brick issue as many have.

    As for the battery issue, I hear it's pot luck if you get one that battery holds a charge, while OFF, for more than 2 days. My SMH10 holds a charge for weeks!!

    I'll continue to hold out for the 20S ver F...   (F) indicating FIXED!! LOL 

    Take care

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    # Scrap the FM radio feature.

    Hmmmm, I don't know about that. I know people who specificly bought the 20S for the radio-feature. It would be better to keep the radio, just make it work. As a common rule it might be good not to implement/sell things that don't work. Just thought I'd state the bloody obvious...

     

    # Let the user of the device select the connection priority.

    I wouldn't pinpoint to this solution. Better say: Let us at least be able to use the features of a connected GPS. I'm not explaining this again. See above.

    I would like to add: # Give customers the feeling that they are taken serious. Don't put us off with "we dropped it at R&D" and then just stop all communication. That's just plain insulting. Just have the balls to say that you either won't implement this because not possible / no time / no money / whatever, or that you WILL implement it, and when. At least we could stop nagging about it if we knew.

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  • 308
    308

    Thats just it, the FM radio according to what I've read, just plain sucks! As for the priority, I'll stick by letting the user of the device decide what's best for them, instead of a software developer. Personally for me, having my wife to intercom to me, from her bike is top priority. Not a phone call, not GPS instructions.

    I've been having some dialog with the folks at Cardo, and to be honest with you, their products are looking pretty darn nice! I would still be able to connect to at least on of the SMH10 users in our group if needed.The more I think about that, that may be the way I go.

     

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  • 308
    308

    One more comment about the FM radio. I have read that carbon fiber will attenuate RF signals. It would be beneficial to hear from those with the FM reception issues, with the type of material their helmet is constructed with.

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  • Jeff Dolence
    Jeff Dolence

    I just exchanged my 20S for another unit and for me, it seems to work more as expected.  This is my 4th unit.  I have only gone on one short ride, so far.  Going to Tristar next week and we'll find out for sure.

    I upgraded the unit to version 1.4, and used the user guide from this release.   I paired to my iphone using mobile phone pairing, my Sena SM10 using the second mobile phone pairing instructions, and to another rider using Intercom pairing.  My Zumo 550 and Valentine radar detector are connected to the Sena SM10 which is a  Bluetooth transmitter/receiver that supports and audio and aux input. The intercom overrides the other devices (GPS directions, GPS music, and Valetine) coming from the SM10 and you can hear them in the background when the other rider is speaking.  I am not sure about the phone as I did not get a call while riding.  The 20S serial number I received starts with 20S1501...  I think the 1st 4 digits are the series number as the previous problematic units I had were 1406 and 1407.

    Something to check. Good Luck.

    Lastly, I have to believe that someone that lives and rides within a city or locally runs would want the FM radio.  I do long distance rides and an FM radio is useless to me, but that feature is Sena's discretion.

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    @308: About the carbon: I don't buy that. I have a Shoei Neotec. No carbon in it I think. But that theory wouldn't mach with the fact that one 20S' radio doesnot work, and the other DOES work, in the same helmet.

    Anyway, this topic isn't about the radio. It is about priorities in the sound-sources, and the fact that your satnav will suppres the intercom if it is paired like a mobile phone, which is the only way you can get both stereo music and nav-instructions...

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  • Dave Meikle
    Dave Meikle

    Ken/Marc

    You probably have this sorted by now but been reading your comments re the issues you have interfacing your Zumo to the Sena. Have you guys considered using an FM modulator plugged into the Zumo headset port. An FM modulator is one of those units that plugs into the headset port of an MP3 player, for example, and transmits a stereo signal to the FM band car radio. You could set the transmitter up to say 87.5Mhz and tune the Sena radio to same frequency and get another stereo input to the headset. Sena puts the radio below the intercom in the priority list so it shouldn't disable the intercom function. As far as the phone connected to the Zumo you could pair it to the 1st phone input to the 20S.

    I have a similar issue in that I wanted the audio from my Ultra in the headset i.e. bike radios and GPS. I currently have a A2DP Bluetooth transmitter connected to the bike headset wiring which works fine when paired to A2DP selective pairing on the Sena but of coarse it uses the only A2DP input hence no A2DP audio off the phone (GPS App and music). The drawback for me is that you can only monitor the radio or the A2DP input hence if I'm listening to the bike audio I get no GPS audio from the phone but probably work ok for you guys.

     

    Dave

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  • Ken
    Ken

    NOW THAT'S AND IDEA WORTH TRYING!

    Dave, it might just solve the problem with the Sena 20S of the Zumo overriding the Intercom!

    They're certainly cheap enough.   I'm excited about trying this.  All audio from the Zumo should be transmitted to the FM radio of the Sena in full stereo; and Intercom will maintain its priority.  I hate to lose the functionality of the Zumo's smartphone interface, but rarely use the phone when on the motorcycle anyway.  

    Thanks.  I'll report back when I buy and try one. 

    Ken

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    Hi Dave. I like your ingenuity ! Pitty the radio on the 20s is also one of its eeehhm... issues.

    I think I'll wait for Ken' report before trying this. In fact, I allready accepted more or less that I don't get nav-instructions while riding in a group.

    Pairing the phone to the 20s is no option though. The phone hase to be paired to the Zumo because the Zumo needs to communicate with weater- and trafficservers (Garmin Smartlink app). But as Ken said: I wouldn't mind too much if I couldn't make a telephone call on the bike anymore. So that's ok.

    Anyway, thanks for a a ray of sunlight in the clouded Sena-sky :D LOL, made that one up myself.

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  • Wz4i
    Wz4i

    Would the SR-10 solve your issue? It will MIX the audio into a SMH10.

    I use a dumb-phone for nav and audio streaming. Below is how I have everything connected..

     

    Equipment:

    SENA SMH10

    SENA SR-10

    Motorola DROID Dumb-phone (used for navigation, and audio streaming)

    Beltronics RADAR Detector

    Kenwood TH-F6A VHF/UHF Handheld Transceiver

     

    Personally, taking a phone call while enjoying my motorcycle ride, is not on my priority list. What is a PRIORITY for me, is having uninterrupted intercom communications with other riders, and navigation instructions.

     

    My DROID is paired to the SMH10 for phone audio (navigation) as well as media audio (streaming). The RADAR detector and TH-F6A are hardwired to the SR-10, that is BT connected to the SMH10. The SR-10 will MIX any incoming audio to an active intercom connection, or audio stream that is taking place. This is one suggestion that I made to SENA when the SR-10 was first release, several years ago. They took this suggestion and implemented it, thus making the SR-10 a much more user friendly device. Thanks SENA!!!

     

    Everything works fine, until a phone call is received. All on-going connections are disabled for the incoming call. This too me, is a problem. If I un-pair the phone audio to the SMH10, I lose navigation instructions from the DROID. This of course is not an option. What does work is to install a CALL BLOCKING app that will route all phone calls to voice mail. Simply install the app, and select BLOCK ALL CALLS during your ride. I now have uninterrupted intercom, audio streaming, and SR-10 connection. You do have to remember to disable the app once your ride is completed though.

     

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    Hi Wz4i. I appreciate your input. I'm glad people are still trying to solve this one way or another.

     

    However, I'm not buying another gadget from Sena, just to make the first gadget from Sena work. I hope you will understand that. It's not like I'm asking Sena to support some kind of exotic complicated setup here. It's just one Zumo and the intercom I want.

    It's ok. I can live with what I have got now. My next purchase might be a different brand though :)

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  • Alex
    Alex

    Hmm. I don't want to live with these limitations. It's really the most basic function I can imagine from a GPS/headset combo. Intercom and GPS navigation - both at the same time. Is that rocket science?

    No response from Sena yet. Hmm. Let try a voice command: "Hello Sena!" ;)

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  • Marc Telkamp
    Marc Telkamp

    LOL. "Hello Sena" doesn't work if you're listening to music :)

    But no, they don't respond anymore. I might have offended them with my cynism. That's ok though. They offended me first.

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  • Ken
    Ken

    I like that:  "Hello, Sena".  

    I have to believe that Sena tech support people and maybe even engineers browse this forum.  But I am beginning to think that priority as so many of us want is just not going to be possible with their current hardware platform.  Else, they'd have spent a couple of hours and created a firmware release that allows us to choose.  In the meantime, I'm going to try the FM transmitter work-around to get past the Sena "feature" that blanks out intercom every time the Zumo beeps, alerts, speaks, powers ON, Power's off, sputters, burps, etc.  

    Marc, at least Sena is keeping this forum open for us.  With so many complaints, they could have shut us down and we'd have to form our own user's group.    

    And for the record:  If they come out with a new "21S" or whatever they'll call it; if it addresses these major issues, I'll buy.  IMO, Sena is superior in every other category.  

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