Dangerously painful beep issue
Sorry - i know this has been posted before and I tracked down the issue at a friend's house yesterday but haven't got the browsing history and can't find it this morning, so apologies for the separate new thread on the issue.
I got a pair of custom moulded in-ear headphones for use with my lovely Sena 20S yesterday. I popped them in and was delighted that I could hear my music and Tomtom navigation from my phone at perfect volume but with no background noise because they act like earplugs (obviously). I had previously found it annoying that I couldn't hear the nav directions well and music was frankly pointless through the combination of supplied helmet speakers and good earplugs, so this was the ultimate solution for me. Good so far...
...I got on my bike, rode to the end of my street where there is a T junction onto a bigger road. As I was slowing down I got an sharp pain in my ear as a beep on incredibly high volume and intensity exploded in my ear. I involuntarily raised my hand to protect my ear (pointless of course) and thankfully it was my left hand. Had it been my right I would've rolled across the junction and it could've been very bad. Of course, I assumed I'd been dumb and needed to adjust the config for in-ear headphones, so i stopped at a friends house and pulled up the user manual online. Nothing, nothing at all about beep volume configuration.
This is a serious issue that could well result in someone being killed totally unnecessarily. Sena - please act and act fast on this.
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I have some experience with software development (beit broadcast media), so I asked some questions of Sena's Korean developers when 1.4 was released. Change made from version 1.3 to 1.4 - Remote control support - Minor bug fixes in using SR10 and more Here's some of my ticket chain from earlier this year: ME Workaround: Upgraded to v1.1.1, before audio boost feature was rolled out in 1.2. Fingers crossed 1.3.1 / 1.4 will contain a fix (and soon). March 9, 2015, 4:53 PM WAHYIT CHEUNG (Sena) HAve you tired disabling audio boost? March 10, 2015, 4:11 PM ME Yeah, that was the first thing I tried before contacting support. I'm guessing that's the bug in the 1.3 compile. I did try 1.2, but that didn't fix it. Looking at the support threads and release notes, I see increase in volume requests etc. I'll have to do without the 1.2 and 1.3 benefits until the next release comes with the corrections. March 11, 2015, 11:48 AM ME I turned on Naviation App Support and the volume discrepancy issue returned. Turning it off corrected the problem. If I can be bothered, I may upgrade to v1.3 and turn off the Nav App Support function to see if that's it. I only turned it on because for some reason I thought it had to be on to have Siri work. Again, issues like this should not befall a product costing almost $400. I'll be letting my friends upgrade and test future firmware updates before I take them. March 12, 2015, 8:28 AM WAHYIT CHEUNG (Sena) I can tell you that the previous version of the 20S firmware 1.2 had volume issues and was corrected in 1.3 and Siri uses HFP, Navigational App Support switches the priority of Intercom to A2DP so this won't affect Siri, but it affects GPS usages from a smart phone when using the intercom. March 12, 2015, 8:34 AM 0 -
Sorry guys - I had that formatted with line breaks for easy reading but it didn't appear that way. See attached image for easier reading...
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No, No need to apologize, It was interesting reading how your exchange with Mr Cheung went.
I'm confidant I speak for most of us, in appreciation and thanks to you for your comment about the issues in a product coasting $400.
But NNC of NSW, are you suggesting that down grading our units to v1.1.1. could correct the ear splitting volume tones?
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That's right. It seems having Nav App Support on has something to do with it. A workaround can be turning this feature off, but I found installing the firmware version before the version with the issue is the best way to get around this issue. Thankfully, Sena is unlike Apple, where you can roll-back to an older version. 0 -
New version! This time I'm going to upgrade and see if the issue continues. (I'd like to activate the new FM Guide on/off feature). 0 -
No, the loud beeps have not been resolved.
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No surprise there, I certainly get the impression :
Sena doesn't care,
They don't actually know how to fix it?
They enjoy knowing they can inflict pain on us and we'll willingly give them our money.
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New user here.. Yes.. Please give us an option to disable volume adjust beeps and low battery. They are way too loud.. Please guys? It honestly shouldn't be that hard. I've been a coder for 17 years now. I'd be more than happy to do it for you just to get those beeps away. If not, I unfortunately am going to return it soon. Just the volume of the beep doesn't near match the current volume for anything playing through those speakers. It's a massive spike in db's compared and I don't feel like losing my hearing or life because of such a simple and useful fix. Once again. Please give us this option or have them at a much lower dB. Whatever the value is just cut it 50%. I promise it'll be fine and very welcomed! 0 -
Hey Shawn.... Did I read that, not only have been a "Coder" for nearly 2 decades but that you could, remove the beeps?
I have a proposition for you.
I'll pay you to remove the beeps from my SENA 20s
Please name your price.
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Yes Paul, if they could give me the raw coding I would be more than happy to do that and recompile it for all of us. It really is a simple fix regardless of how it's coded. There is a value of the beep that can be changed or removed as a configuration option, and if not, it's literally a couple hour fix to integrate that. I don't care if the unit dies on me with no warning or if I can't hear the beep as I increase audio. What I think they don't understand is when you get going on a highway you have to really turn it up (and it sounds amazing btw, well done Sena! :) but! The beep that accompanies it is what we don't like. On average, your general user doesn't use lossless audio files (nor does your cellphone) so we need the beeps to match that is all we are getting at. It's totally fine at lower levels, but audio at higher speeds than a stop has to be turned up more. My 10U would be flawless if this was an option. At the Highway Patrol where I had to renew me liscence today they actually did not recommend Sena units as the tester had a 20 and couldn't stand it. He thought it was a terrible flaw that could cause irreversible hearing and possible a deadly wreck in the right circumstances. These units have so much potential if this simple fix could be implemented. I wish they actually read these posts people put as it's a really big issue. I debated on returning mine today, but I'm gonna give it a week and see if they respond or are willing to let me fix it for them. 0 -
I will try and properly decompile the firmware though. If I can get it done I'll let you know where you can download it. 0 -
Long exhale.... ... ... ... Shawn I've got my fingers crossed and I'm sending you positive thoughts.
I'll also head to the other threads and rally you some more support.
I completely agree, SENA has made a fantastic product, over the years, I've personally purchased 8 units and promoted the product to fellow riders. But, Since the release of the 20s, I've also shouldered the guilt of knowing the inherent dangers of this product, It made me feel sick to know that I've inadvertently promoted a product that I do believe will lead to death of my fellow riders. and since, have also been begging for attention to this LOUD BEEPS issue with astonishment that the only response i've ever had from a SENA technician is vague non answers, complete with poor spelling and punctuation.
(I'll copy and paste the transactions for your review in hopes it may encourage you)
Honestly Shawn, Even before reading your story about your encounter with highway Patrol, I've speculated the only way to have a careless money grubbing cooperation like SENA, pay any attention to the hazards of its products, let alone, listen/read the concerns of it's consumers, would be a MVA (motor vehicle accident) causing death leading to a class action suit.
That, or, a department of motor the vehicle act/government, that would out right prohibit SENA from being used on public roads, and actually have law enforcement issue tickets to it's users .
The death of it's consumers or the back lash of something like those examples, just may, get a scruples cooperation like SENA to maybe pay, some attention?
Shawn, IF, you're successful in this, I'd delighted to send you a generous payment.
I'll spread the word
Shout it from the mountain tops, and personally champion you on my shoulders
Not to mention, You'll likely make a fortune.
Seriously, as a rider of 30 years, the only single most dangerous item for riders I've ever seen that's worse then this BEEPING ISSUE. is a motorcycle with out a front brake!
Shawn, please keep track of the hours you spend in your effort to fix this issue. Even if you're not successful. I do want to know the hours you spend.
I thank you in advance, and if there comes a time we actually meet? Not only is your food and drinks are on me, You'll gain the gratitude and honour from my self, the ones I love, all riders and activity users alike world wide, where ever SENA products are being used.
I believe you'll be saving lives.
Best
Paul.
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I've been using the 20's units (2) for a year and a half now and have never had this problem. The beeps for low power are normal, same volume as the other sound.
I suggest if you are using earbuds (I do too) you could remove the earphone jack from the shoe very quickly to cut off the sound if its a problem. Just reach up and yank the wire.
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I have had a pair of the first released units delivered in May 2014. One is just now exhibiting the random-shut-off phenomenon. It quits with an audio "click" or "pop".
It will power up again, but by then we are under way and the pairing and music sharing functions have been lost. I am submitting a repair ticket.
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Ok, I got it and I must s ay, it's c ertainly everything SENA is not.
It's going to be a considerable investment, but m a ybe if a number of riders and I, had a "packtalk" we cou l d maybe get a discount on the price?
I may consider selling off the 4 SENA's I have, but considering many Riders here agree that the units are dangerous and that SEAN as a company doesn't appear to care, It's probably better to add them to the landfill.
Comments anyone?
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Has this been addressed yet? Has anyone put in a helpdesk ticket on this recently? I am using headphones and MAN those beeps are loud. Shake your skull, burst eardrums loud. I have been able to turn down the "Hello Sena" voice and opening prompts but no adjustments made have any effect on the other beeps. PLEASE, there has to be a fix for this.
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No sir. It seems they just don't care. Friends I have that weren't fortunate enough to return them just make sure theirs is fully charged before every ride and don't use voice activated communications either. The low battery beep is way too loud and so is the voice activation feature. There is no way to turn them down. Sucks, because they have so much potential. Only longer day rides they actually won't turn them on until they hit certain spots in the ride to ensure they don't hear the low battery beep. 0 -
I have put in a ticket, yesterday.
I returned my unit after just ONE day of use!!! This is ridiculous. I know it's a step backwards, but does anyone know if below unit has this same issue? I could care less about intercom. I only want FM radio, streaming music and phone (in that order). I don't want to use plugs, whole reason I want total wireless setup.
Sena SMH5D-FM-01
Your request (#103421) has been received, and is being reviewed by our support staff.
To review the status of the request and add additional comments, follow the link below:
http://support.sena.com/requests/103421
Michael Bennett, Mar 14, 7:53 PM:1. The left speaker is louder than the left (and no, it's not my ears)
2. The volume setting won't hold for each device.
2a. If I set sena voice to reasonable level, then it BLASTS the GPS audio. Turn down GPS volume, then I can't hear SENA. Yet, regardless of either of those two. the FM radio or music levels are just fine.Do you have known issues where the left speaker (shorter wire) is louder than right speaker?
I thought volume savings was fixed in firmware 1.4 or 1.5? I have 1.6 You should have a mixer setting for all sources (and ability to lock all those settings, then a master control that equally raises the volume across all devices (once locked in). GPS is blowing out my ears. and It's all on the internet from others too. Google it.If not immediate fix, I'll be returning the 20S.
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Michael Bennett
In trust that you have, with certainty, confirmed that
1. The left speaker is louder than ... the left... ?
I know you're not happy with the results of your SENA 20s purchase, but please try to be clear.
2. The volume won't hold for each device
The dangerously loud beeps is a regrettable issue that, in the past, SENA been made aware of, and currently, doesn't care.
But the inconsistent levels sounds more like an issue of the unit you've got.
Sounds to me that you may have a defective unit.
Return it asap for a full money refund and don't look back.
If you can't get that then, a new, replacement, only this time, Open the box, set it up in hand and test it right there in the store before accepting it.
Research this Packtalk
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Michael Bennett, you must have a defective unit or defective ears ;-). Likely the unit or the clamp. I was only able to find one other mention of that type of problem, here: http://support.sena.com/entries/70421870-Right-ear-speaker-volume-is-softer-than-the-left-ear, so you don't stand alone.
Lastly, do you still have the unit. in your post from yesterday you state that you returned it after just one day, but then you put in a Helpdesk ticket stating that if it isn't fixed, you'll return it? Do you still have the unit? Either way, good luck with the issue.0 -
I decided to return quickly. At the pricepoint of the 20S, no way was I keeping it. After reading all the issues from a LONG time ago, I figured SENA just doesn't care about us lowly customers. Another day or week of me waiting for a fix, was unlikely to happen.
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I have not experienced this particular problem but there are a lot of variables that might cause one person to have it and not another. Like ears, earbuds, etc. It does not look like it is a "universal" problem that everyone has. That said I do not doubt the sincerity of those reporting it or their reality that it is a problem. As for Sena it is probably a difficult thing to get to the root of this particular problem unless you can reproduce it on their end. If you have ever tried to help someone remotely solve a computer problem you probably have some sense of the difficulty I am talking about here. So if you are having the problem its probably helpful to try some self solving like swapping out earbuds/speakers to see if it persists. That might help get closer to the root of the issue which would help the Sena tech solve it. Their techs are not particularly adept and seem limited to a few canned responses, like resets, replacements and the like. Maybe that is the Sena management party line, which would be too bad.
I'd really like to see them make more of the features on the 20s be controllable from the software interface. Like being able to turn off certain features like this or control their volume so you can set that up in the comfort of your living room. Everyone has their own particular likes and dislikes so that would help with each persons preferences.
Finally I do think its a good thing that Sena allows free discourse about their products on a discussion site they host. That is a good thing and I applaud them for not quashing bad reviews or having schills post good ones like some vendors do on Amazon.
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It wasn't nearly as bad of an issue until i start using earbuds. BUT, there is just too much road noise on long highway trips to not use ear plugs and once earplugs were in, i couldn't hear anything from the sena speakers. To replicate, take any pair of headphones, plug them in and please report back on your experience. Be careful though. If you were able to fix, let us KNOW!!! The beeps are tied to the input source volume.... meaning, if you want to turn up the music to hear, the beeps are also turned up but are exponentially louder. results are instantly reproducible. The only beeps that were ear blasting before i started using earbuds were the low battery which they have turned up to 11 and the first ring of an incoming phone call which is set to melt tungsten. None of these volumes are user configureable. I would love to just turn them off. If Sena can't lower them easily, allow us to just turn off all notifications. It isn't the proper solution but at least i don't have to worry about damaging my ears or killing myself in a wreck.
I wouldn't be nearly as upset as i am now if i were the only or one of a few people that have reported this. It would mean, "Hey, it's a problem but one that only i seem to have. I would like them to fix it but I realize that it may not happen or may take quite a while to do." But these same requests stretch back years and are covered in a half dozen threads on their help site with multiple helpdesk tickets placed. Lastly, this is not a feature request. This is a bug reporting.0 -
Mbc, I also use earbuds exclusively and have not experienced this problem. I alternate between Etymotic mc5's and mk5's. The voice comes on and says "battery low" and then 5 minutes later it dies. And no I don't have a hearing problem. Are you using these earbuds or some other kind? What brand and model? Maybe that has something to do with it.
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I forgot to say I also use ER6i's with custom fit earpieces. They are a now obsolete model that goes fully into the ear. I found they were not loud enough though and prefer the other Etymotic models these days.
I am also wondering if the recently added "Audio boost" affects this problem. I think it is turned on by default.
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Bill, I have tried it with PLUG-UP SPLUG (http://www.plugup.com/the_S_plug_stereo_earbuds_s/67.htm), the MEElectronics in ear, a pair of sony's, a pair of panasonics, apple buds, and a pair of BOSE over ears (during testing.) all exhibit the problem. i am able to lower the start-up and shut down voiceover levels and beeps as indicated above and this is saved so i never have an issue with the startup and shutdown volumes. they are now ideal. I have tested with audio boost on and off. I didn't mention it yet but the same symptoms occur if you accidentally hit the jog dial button for intercom when there isn't another intercom present; the voice stating "Intercom failed" is now permanently impressed on my skull. I have tried to fix the volume directly after a factory reset without pairing any devices, then pair each device an set the volume level. it does not affect the outcome. I lower the beeps and voiceover volume to tolerable levels and then pair the devices. BUT, the volume for these notifications is tied to the input. Meaning, i lower the volume to tolerable, then for example, play some music. It is VERY low (because they are tied) so i must raise the volume to hear the music. Any voice or beep at this point is ear shattering. This same problem exists with the intercom. I have also tried setting the intercom audio over sensitivity to varying levels in an attempt to keep the volume levels from the source HIGH so that i can keep the master volume lower but this still does not affect the volume of the notifications/beeps. As you can see, i have tested this quite a bit on two different units (i originally purchased dual units).
As others have mentioned, the first reaction is to grab our ears in pain. Our bodies involuntary want to rip the earphones out of our ears. It is in vain since we have a helmet on but as others have also mentioned, this is quite dangerous on two wheels. I cannot use the in helmet speakers on the highway because i can't hear much at that speed and using the earbuds give the issues i and others have been describing. I am not sure the route to take. At the moment, I just will not be able to use it because it is far too dangerous and we are scared to use earbuds on the bike in anticipation of what could happen at 70 mph and our skull resonates. I know there are many over dramatic posts on the internets but this truly is something to behold. It is hard to portray exactly the pain that is endured. Interestingly enough, as i write this i can feel the experience of the last time it hit me.
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Wow, sounds like you have tried everything, different earbuds and different units. Why you have this problem and I don't is hard to understand, but it would seem to be the 20s units you have.
I read someone earlier say that you have to adjust the volume of a "source" when that source is playing. That can be hard with the Sena lady since she usually speaks only in very short sentences. However, if you ask her "What can I say?" she will ramble on for a minute or so with all the voice instructions you can say. This would give you plenty of time to turn her volume down. Or perhaps you have already tried that.
I have dual units too and I use one or the other from time to time and both are the same to me. I often bump the jog dial by accident and get the "Intercom failed" message, but its the same volume as all my other sources because I tuned it that way.
I guess the only other thing to do is ask for replacements to see if they perform any differently. Sena has been very good about that with me, I have gone through a couple of sets before my current ones which have been performing properly for a year now. A statement of your problem would be that you cannot adjust the sound on each source separately as Sena advertised they could. Failing that there's eBay or Craigslist for you to sell them on, and it seems used sets go for quite a bit more than you'd think. If you can't return them at least you could recover some of your expense.
Its too bad you have this problem. Maybe Cardo units would work better for you. I think they are the only others I saw with a close set of features. I tried to look on the Cardo forum before I bought my 20s's but you can't see it unless you own a pair, so its hard to do research on them. Maybe Amazon opinions?
Otherwise waiting to Sena to fix your issue will probably be a long wait unless they can see some urgency about it. That could be accomplished if enough people complained about this to the Federal agency NHTSA. You can file a complaint here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Good luck, I am sure it will take a while, but that's the only thing I can think of that would definitely get their attention...
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Bill,
I had not specifically tried to configure the volume by speaking "what can i say." I appreciate the suggestion and again had a glimmer of hope. The volume when she was speaking was indeed low like i had previously set it in my other attempts. So it looks like all the menu voices and beeps are tied together. i immediately gave it another test but this time was cautious and kept my ears further out of harms way. Sadly, it was intolerable. I recently put a ticket in for buzzing from my units and Sena sent me new clamps but the buzzing has not disappeared. I will repeat with another ticket and also mention this problem. I'll post back to this thread with whatever comes of it.
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No more comments about the loud beep for over 3 months. Has the problem been fixed with the latest 1.6 update ?
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I purchased the 20S today, and upgraded the firmware to 1.6.2, and this issue is VERY MUCH STILL happening! It's crazy loud, and hurts my ears terribly. I am almost sure that I will be returning the 20S. Seems like Sena has had at least a few YEARS to fix this problem.
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