SR10 PTT Reprogram?
I Currently use and enjoy the SMH10B and the SR10 on my 1981 Honda Goldwing. I have the SR10 wired to my Kenwood Ham Radio (TH-F6A) and would like to see the PTT remote switch reprogrammed to be able to disregard the incoming audio from the two way radio. It has become increasing difficult to "double tap" the PTT when talking on local ham radio repeaters while riding.
It is due to the fact that a repeater does not "drop out" like a transmission from another hand held to hand held does... a repeater continues to transmit after the station who was talking stops transmitting. This continuing reception of the repeater's transmission causes the SR10 to think that there is still audio on the received channel and the only way to place the two way radio back into transmit is to "double tap" the PTT to allow the SR10 to close the audio channel and put the radio into transmit.
The default configuration for the SR10's PTT switch is great for "simplex" operation (direct radio to radio communication like walkie talkies) but is difficult to use for "half duplex" operations like on a repeater. The ability to reprogram the PTT for "Half Duplex" mode, or PTT always active, with no busy channel lock out, would be a welcome firmware upgrade. Not only would it allow me to operate my radio as I did with it wired to my helmet and PTT, it would keep me from constantly taking my eyes off the road to see if the radio is transmitting because I got the timing and speed right on the "double tap"
Rich
-
Have you had any luck with remedies... I will be using same radio next month after SR10 and cable arrives.. Joe KB4UW
0 -
Hi Joe,
I haven't had any luck in generating any "remedies" for the "double tap" PTT issue.... It seems that this particular firmware upgrade request is low on the priority list, so it might not get worked on in the future, or ever... I don't understand why it isn't a higher priority, but I am not paying the engineers to write the code for the firmware so I will just have to wait for it to happen.... I don't know if bypassing the SR10's PTT circuitry and directly "keying" the radio will work for us, as I am not sure if the "transmit" audio path is active while the radio is receiving and then manually put into transmit....
Of course I always could try to reverse engineer the firmware and write it in myself, this way only MY PTT would behave as it should when using a repeater, and not as it currently does requiring the "double tap"... Let me know how you make out ... if we get this thread more active it might move higher up on the priority list....
Rich N2PPN
0 -
Hi Rich, I use a Ham radio myself with the SR10 and I don't notice any of my local repeaters continuing to transmit, they all drop carrier right after the sender does*. I'm new to Ham so I'm mostly curious if what you're describing is all that common or just a "feature" of your local repeater(s) (or if something else is going on for you with your radio).
* They do sometimes continue to transmit briefly for end tones and/or station ID as needed, but then drop out, at least my radio closes squelch. This is not a CTCSS issue as most of my local repeaters don't send tone.
0 -
Hi Peter, I guess you might not live in a large metropolitan area line I do (NY METRO AREA) and that might be why the repeaters in your area don't have much "hang time" and drop right after someone stops transmitting... unfortunately for most repeaters that's not the case as "hang time" is the thing that saves the transmitter from excessive cycling of on and off as it stays on for a few seconds after it stops hearing an input station transmit so it will be ready to continue transmitting for the next station to reply... I guess it is what it is, and SENA doesn't think my request is worthy of even looking into... so I'll just keep "double tapping" my way as I ride....
0 -
Hi Rich,
ok, I think I understand what you're talking about now. I read your original message as meaning that the repeater _never_ stops transmitting. Yes, my local repeaters to continue to transmit for a few seconds (it varies, but I counted 8 on one of them), and when there are other people carrying on a conversation, the repeater generally never drops out between transmissions.
What I think you're describing now is that your PTT button doesn't put your radio into transmit mode while the SR10 is receiving audio. Is that correct? So what you're doing is double tapping the PTT to close the audio channel , then pressing it again to re-open the channel and transmit.
I just did some tests on mine and mine doesn't behave like yours. Any time I press the PTT on the SR10 my radio transmits, even if it's receiving audio from a repeater. Which is how I think you want yours to behave.
FWIW, my SR10 is running V1.2 firmware. If yours isn't, you might try upgrading. If that doesn't do it for you, you might double check the wiring of the PTT signal from the SR10 to your radio, and possibly the settings on the radio itself. Maybe the busy channel lockout on your radio is turned on and preventing the transmission? If I turn my radio's busy channel lockout on then I can't transmit during the repeaters hang time either, but with it off, it transmits any time the SR10's PTT button is pressed.
Also be aware that the audio connection between the SR10 and the SMH10 is independent of whether the radio is receiving (or transmitting). There's no need to wait for the SR10 to drop _its_ connection before transmitting. The SR10 will also add 8 seconds of "hang time" with it's audio connection to the SMH10 after it stops receiving audio from the radio. So if your repeater has 8 seconds of hang time, your SR10 won't close it's audio channel to the SMH10 for 16 seconds after you receive a transmission (or send one I suppose). The PTT works fine during this hang time. The SR10's hang time is configurable when using the manager software, I set mine to 3 seconds.
One thing I did notice is that my SR10 doesn't return to receiving audio very quickly after transmitting. One of my repeaters sends a courtesy tone at the end of every transmission, which my radio picks up fine by itself, but I don't hear it through the SR10.
0 -
Hi again Peter,
I am running the most current firmware for the SR10 and just upgraded my SMH10B's as well just the other day... I am pretty sure the BCLO function is turned off on the radio, and the cable from the SR10 is a factory supplied SENA one for the Kenwood radio connected via the HIROSE connector on the SR10.... I use the SR10's remote PTT to activate the PTT on the radio... It ALWAYS did this (the keeping open of the audio channel and locking out transmit) unless I "double tapped" the remote PTT to manually close the received audio channel and alow the next press of the PTT to activate my radio into transmit mode... to "exaggerate this" try using the settings button on the SR10 Manager program and set the audio timeout to a HIGH value this will make it worse and keep audio channel open even longer... all I want is to be able to set the audio channel timeout function to ZERO (no time out at all, just immediate turn around or toggle between receive and transmit) so I can transmit while the repeater is still transmitting, but not receiving someone else...(we sometimes get really "quick on the trigger" during spirited QSO's and being able to "quick key" can make a difference in both getting your point across and in an actual emergency...) Just was looking to be able to eliminate the delay in received audio to transmit toggle time...
Rich N2PPN
EchoLink Node 8289
Look for me on the 9126 NE IRLP Reflector on iRLP (W2VL-R)
0 -
Hi Rich,
I just looked through the manual for your radio and I can't find a way to turn BCLO on or off, the only mention of a similar function I see is the VOXonBUSY (menu 20), you might try turning that on. But I presume that you have the internal VOX function turned off. The only other thing I can think of is to make sure PACKET is set to 1200 and the SP/MIC JACK function is set to SP/MIC.
Does your radio let you transmit while receiving from a repeater if you don't plug it into the SR10 and just push the PTT button?
I just double-checked my setup and I have no problem using the PTT on the SR10 at any time (both remote PTT plugged in to the SR10 and the PTT button on the SR10 itself), if the audio channel from the SR10 is open or closed, and if the repeater is transmitting or not (so long as I turn off the BCLO on the radio).
When I double-tap the PTT button on the SR10 it simply opens or closes the audio channel between the SR10 and the SMH10. If I double-tap to open the audio channel it stays open until I double-tap again. If I never double-tap the PTT button on the SR10, the audio channel opens any time the radio receives a signal (or makes another noise like a key beep, but it takes a second or so to open the channel to eh SMH10) or when I push the PTT button. It then closes the audio channel 3 seconds after the radio stops making noise. But I can hit the PTT button on the SR10 and my radio transmits at any time, whether the audio channel is open or not, and if the radio is receiving or not.
FWIW, I'm using a BaoFeng UV-5R radio which also uses a Kenwood cable to connect to the SR10, so we're both using the same PTT signal to trigger the radio.
Peter W1YZF
(I generally hang out on IRLP node 7870, KA6UAI, but mostly when I'm on the bike...)
0 -
Hi Peter,
Interesting.... I am actually using a Wouxun dual bander on the bike instead of the Kenwood... I went out to the bike yesterday after receiving your message/reply and tried to get radio to transmit while receiving signal/audio from repeater... I couldn't get it to transmit either with the SR 10's PTT or the external PTT unless the repeater was quiet or I double tapped the PTT.... is there any way you could run the SR10 manager program and back up your SR10's firmware and then E-mail a copy of it to me???? maybe there is a difference in our SR 10"s??? Otherwise I am stumped at figuring out why your SR 10 works like I want mine to.... (if repeater is ID'ng, or someone is talking, I can't transmit unless I double tap the PTT first) Sheesh!!!
Rich
0 -
Oh you can E-mail it to me at n2ppn@limarc.org
73 de N2PPN
0 -
Hey Peter,
How is your SR 10 paired to your SMH 10?? as a phone (HFP) or as an audio device/media ??/ maybe that is my problem???
Rich
0 -
What does your SMH 10 "say" when it connects to your SR 10?? does it say "Phone connected" or "media connected"???
R.
0 -
Hi RIch,
well, that's one difference in our setup, my SR10 isn't paired as either phone or media. I used the multipoint pairing for it (hold the jog wheel on the SMH10 until it says 'intercom pairing' then tap the phone button, it should then say 'multipoint pairing'. When it connects to the SMH10 the SMH10 says 'device connected'. My iPhone is paired directly to the SMH10 as a phone and media device.
But while that's the preferred way to pair your SR10 (because it allows you to hear your radio and other attached devices, like radar detector, during an active intercom), I don't think it's going to solve your problem. My PTT works the same even if the SMH10 is off.
I'm really thinking the problem is with your radio, not the SR10, what happens when you key the PTT of the radio itself, while a repeater is transmitting, without it plugged in to the SR10 at all? If that works, try plugging in and external headset or speaker/mic to the radio and try keying that PTT button while a repeater is transmitting.
I did email you a backup of the firmware from my SR10, feel free to give it a try, but it's just the V1.2 firmware that I downloaded from their site.
Peter
0 -
Hi Peter,
Radio transmits whenever the radio's PTT button is pressed no matter what the receiver is doing... so if you wanted to say "step on someone" you could do just that with the radio's PTT, but not without double tapping the SR10's PTT if that was what you were using... I'll check and see if the SR10 is paired as a multipoint device now... Probably just reset it and re-pair it to be sure...
I'll look for your firmware save and if I still have any issues. I'll try to U/L it to my SR10 and see if it changes behavior...
Rich
0 -
Hmm, stranger and stranger. Do you have another device to plug in to the sp/mic jacks of the radio that has a PTT button? Like a headset or external speaker/mic? If so, see if the radio will let you step on the repeater with that PTT button (I'm trying to see if the radio behaves differently with it's internal PTT and an external PTT). Maybe the radio has separate settings for BCLO for internal and external PTT for some strange reason? (I accept that I'm grasping at straws here... but I know that the BaoFengs have some odd quirks from buggy firmware, maybe the Wouxuns do too.)
0 -
Nope, everything acts as it should EXCEPT for the SR10!!! I have it in my hand right now, repaired as multipoint and if I hit the PTT on it I hear the audio channel open up as soon as I release it and it stays open for 3 seconds..... I look kinda funny sitting in the house with my helmet on and trying to figure this out...
Rich
0 -
Ok, well that behavior actually sounds normal. Let me ask what may be a stupid question, are you tapping the PTT button or holding it? Just to be pedantic, my experience is: press and hold the remote PTT button plugged in to the SR 10, the audio channel opens (pausing my music if t was playing), I start talking, when done talking, I release the PTT, the audio channel stays open while I receive a reply or until three seconds of no sound from the radio. At any time I can press and hold the PTT button again (audio channel open or closed) and the radio transmits for as long as I hold the PTT. 0 -
I hold the PTT when speaking on the repeater.. I release it to hear what is said back to me or others on frequency, I do not use VOX or any other types of transmitter keying other than the SR10's PTT circuitry... I may just make a break out cable for the SR10 and directly control PTT and bypass the SR10 altogether..... It is frustrating to have all this technology and not be able to adjust the audio channel timeout feature as I would like it to be...
Rich
0 -
Sure wish I could find a tool to hack the firmware so I could just change the timeout timer to zero...
Rich
0 -
Just posted a request for a firmware editor... lets see how many votes THAT gets....
R.
0 -
I took my SR10 off the bike and brought it into the den with the computer....... I checked all the settings on the SR10 with the SR10 manager program, I checked all the settings on my radio, i checked all the settings on my SMH10B.... it STILL does the same thing... if there is a received signal FROM my TWO WAY RADIO, I CAN NOT TRANSMIT UNLESS I DOUBLE TAP THE PTT SWITCH, EITHER THE REMOTE OR THE ONE ON THE SR10.... I GIVE UP!!!
Rich
0 -
Maybe WINHEX edito will help me figure it out....
Rich
0 -
*editor
0 -
If the radio's PTT button works during receive, and a different external PTT, like on a Speaker/Mic or headset also works during receive, then my guess is that you either have a bad cable between the SR10 and the radio or a bad SR10. Because on my setup the PTT buttons works at any time, radio receiving or not, audio channel open or not. If I were you I'd send the SR10 and cable back to Sena for evaluation/repair. Of course, if the other external PTT also doesn't work during receive, then it's an issue with your radio.
Closing the audio channel shouldn't have anything to do with it. Setting the audio timeout to 0 (which I agree should be possible) isn't the proper fix, it's just a work-around (it's just like a repeater's hang time, and helps you send or receive the next transmission without the delay of setting up another audio channel.
If you really want to try hacking the audio timeout to 0, note that the SR10 Manager software stores a separate setting file when making a backup of the device before a firmware upload. Upload V1.1 into your SR10 and copy the backup files. Then restore the backup, change _only_ the audio timeout, and upload V1.1 again making another backup file. Now compare the backup files and see which byte changed. Zero that byte out in the backup file with a hex editor, then restore...
0 -
Sounds like a plan... The other way was to open up the SR10 and just hard-wire the external PTT to the PTT switch on the SR10 eliminating the software controlled PTT... but that would void warramnty... I am suprised that no one else has responded to this posting with their particular SR10's behavior... this way I would see if it's mine that is anomalous, or yours...
Rich
0 -
Thank you for your suggestions. We are doing the feasibility study of setting PTT program for placing PTT toggle functions on SR10. We will keep you informed later.
0 -
THANK YOU
0 -
Pretty sure I located the memory location of the PTT timer in the firmware.....
Rich
0 -
suggested this on April 6, 2012, 10:10 AM
I Currently use and enjoy the SMH10B and the SR10 on my 1981 Honda Goldwing. I have the SR10 wired to my Kenwood Ham Radio (TH-F6A) and would like to see the PTT remote switch reprogrammed to be able to disregard the incoming audio from the two way radio. It has become increasing difficult to "double tap" the PTT when talking on local ham radio repeaters while riding.It is due to the fact that a repeater does not "drop out" like a transmission from another hand held to hand held does... a repeater continues to transmit after the station who was talking stops transmitting. This continuing reception of the repeater's transmission causes the SR10 to think that there is still audio on the received channel and the only way to place the two way radio back into transmit is to "double tap" the PTT to allow the SR10 to close the audio channel and put the radio into transmit.
The default configuration for the SR10's PTT switch is great for "simplex" operation (direct radio to radio communication like walkie talkies) but is difficult to use for "half duplex" operations like on a repeater. The ability to reprogram the PTT for "Half Duplex" mode, or PTT always active, with no busy channel lock out, would be a welcome firmware upgrade. Not only would it allow me to operate my radio as I did with it wired to my helmet and PTT, it would keep me from constantly taking my eyes off the road to see if the radio is transmitting because I got the timing and speed right on the "double tap"
Rich
0 -
suggested this on April 6, 2012, 10:10 AM
I Currently use and enjoy the SMH10B and the SR10 on my 1981 Honda Goldwing. I have the SR10 wired to my Kenwood Ham Radio (TH-F6A) and would like to see the PTT remote switch reprogrammed to be able to disregard the incoming audio from the two way radio. It has become increasing difficult to "double tap" the PTT when talking on local ham radio repeaters while riding.It is due to the fact that a repeater does not "drop out" like a transmission from another hand held to hand held does... a repeater continues to transmit after the station who was talking stops transmitting. This continuing reception of the repeater's transmission causes the SR10 to think that there is still audio on the received channel and the only way to place the two way radio back into transmit is to "double tap" the PTT to allow the SR10 to close the audio channel and put the radio into transmit.
The default configuration for the SR10's PTT switch is great for "simplex" operation (direct radio to radio communication like walkie talkies) but is difficult to use for "half duplex" operations like on a repeater. The ability to reprogram the PTT for "Half Duplex" mode, or PTT always active, with no busy channel lock out, would be a welcome firmware upgrade. Not only would it allow me to operate my radio as I did with it wired to my helmet and PTT, it would keep me from constantly taking my eyes off the road to see if the radio is transmitting because I got the timing and speed right on the "double tap"
Rich
0 -
suggested this on April 6, 2012, 10:10 AM
I Currently use and enjoy the SMH10B and the SR10 on my 1981 Honda Goldwing. I have the SR10 wired to my Kenwood Ham Radio (TH-F6A) and would like to see the PTT remote switch reprogrammed to be able to disregard the incoming audio from the two way radio. It has become increasing difficult to "double tap" the PTT when talking on local ham radio repeaters while riding.It is due to the fact that a repeater does not "drop out" like a transmission from another hand held to hand held does... a repeater continues to transmit after the station who was talking stops transmitting. This continuing reception of the repeater's transmission causes the SR10 to think that there is still audio on the received channel and the only way to place the two way radio back into transmit is to "double tap" the PTT to allow the SR10 to close the audio channel and put the radio into transmit.
The default configuration for the SR10's PTT switch is great for "simplex" operation (direct radio to radio communication like walkie talkies) but is difficult to use for "half duplex" operations like on a repeater. The ability to reprogram the PTT for "Half Duplex" mode, or PTT always active, with no busy channel lock out, would be a welcome firmware upgrade. Not only would it allow me to operate my radio as I did with it wired to my helmet and PTT, it would keep me from constantly taking my eyes off the road to see if the radio is transmitting because I got the timing and speed right on the "double tap"
Rich
0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
34 comments