How Exactly Does the Group Chat Work
I have spent a lot of time reviewing this feature of the 20s but am having trouble understanding exactly how it works and have a number of question that I can't seem to find answers to:
Firstly, it appears that each device links to two other devices such that all devices are connected in a chain. Is this the case?
Would this mean there could potentially be a small delay relaying a message from one end of the chain to the other and getting a response?
And does it also mean that so long as each pair of devices is within range of each other than the entire chain could extend such that the first and last device are no longer within range?
It also appears non-Sena devices don't have the ability to "continue" the chain so non-Sena devices need to be located at either the "Head" or "Tail" of the chain but for some reason you can only have one "Sena-Sena" link between. Is there any reason you couldn't have a "X-S-S-S-Y" chain (there "S-S" means Sena connected to Sena and "X-S/S-Y" means Sena connected to non-Sena?
Also, why is the length restricted to 8 for the 20s and only 4 for the SPH10H-FM?
And finally, when setting up the conference intercom with the smartphone app is it just linking all the devices in 3-way conference intercoms in exactly the same way as discussed in 15.3.2 of the manual or is it doing something different? As in is there anything special about the device that established the conference group?
Thanks,
And all the best,
Slarti.
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Four of us on our trip also had trouble understanding.
When we had an obstruction between the middle two of the chain, it interrupted the chain between the end users. The end of chain riders could be riding side by side, but could not communicate until the rear two riders got around the obstruction. I think that's just the way Bluetooth headsets work when more than 2 are connected.
It did seem that the end users in our line of motorcycles could communicate via the in-between users; even though the end users were out of range from each other.
The most confusing thing was trying to figure out and remembver what number each rider was in the connection procedure. My number one intercom connection could be Joe, but I might be Joe's number 4. Sure would be nice if voice command could understand and act on spoken names instead of pushing the jog button 1-3 times (plus rotating the dial for more users). Maybe some day they'll do this.
We tried the Conference intercom (setup and controlled by the iPhone app) throughout the 10-day trip and never got it to work. Several nights, we'd sit together, read the manual, try to conference, and fail. That may have been fixed with newer firmware; our experience was in early July.
Ken
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Thanks for reporting your experience Ken.
And yeah, if the phone app doesn't work the organising of group chat does sound rather challenging.
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Can anyone tell me if it's possible to share music with a group?
At first I thought it was a feature but I'm having trouble finding it now. Working out how to share with one other person is easy enough to find but sharing with a group, not so much. I thought I read somewhere that it was possible but that the music provider would have to be at the head or tail of the chain but I'm having trouble finding it now. Can it be done?
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Tell you what, it would be good if Sena could monitor there own forum/support pages.
I was keen to buy this product but if they cant even answer a simple question as to whether you can share music over group chat I'm kind of inclined to think there customer service must be pretty poor. There selling a pretty technical product and if they won't even answer simple questions about how it works then what are they good for. I mean seriously, what's the point of having a forum if you don't respond to questions asked???
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Slarti - Music sharing does not work on Group intercom.
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Thanks for confirming that Dean. Would you also be able to elaborate on how the group chat feature works?
I'm trying to workout what would be the most cost effective way to have 5 people connected through group chat. Obviously we could all buy 20s' but that seems excessive. Is there a less expensive way we can connect 5 people together in a group chat using Universal Intercom or otherwise.
Thanks.
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Also, could you please explain what the "8 way chat" option discussed in section 20.9 of the manual does and what it means to have it "Optimized" for either small or large groups.
Thanks.
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@Slarti: We'll try to answer as many of your questions as possible.
Firstly, it appears that each device links to two other devices such that all devices are connected in a chain. Is this the case?
Yes. All of the headsets are connected together in a chain.
Would this mean there could potentially be a small delay relaying a message from one end of the chain to the other and getting a response?
Yes. There is a delay but it is insignificant. The amount of delay depends on the number of headsets in the chain.
And does it also mean that so long as each pair of devices is within range of each other than the entire chain could extend such that the first and last device are no longer within range?
Yes. But, the range between each connected headset depends on the number of headsets in the Group Intercom.
It also appears non-Sena devices don't have the ability to "continue" the chain so non-Sena devices need to be located at either the "Head" or "Tail" of the chain but for some reason you can only have one "Sena-Sena" link between. Is there any reason you couldn't have a "X-S-S-S-Y" chain (there "S-S" means Sena connected to Sena and "X-S/S-Y" means Sena connected to non-Sena?
This is possible but only with the 20S as it allows for all 5 headsets to be connected in that configuration and is kind of tricky in connecting all of them together.
Also, why is the length restricted to 8 for the 20s and only 4 for the SPH10H-FM?
The SPH10H-FM and other headsets that are limited to 4 connections do not have the processing power to handle more than their specific number of connections so they have a limitation.
And finally, when setting up the conference intercom with the smartphone app is it just linking all the devices in 3-way conference intercoms in exactly the same way as discussed in 15.3.2 of the manual or is it doing something different? As in is there anything special about the device that established the conference group?
Using the Smartphone App to create a Group Intercom is slightly different from a Multi-way intercom. Once the Group Intercom is created on the smartphone, saved to the 20S paired to the phone and the Group Intercom is initiated, a signal is sent to all of the headsets listed in the group and connects all of the headsets in a chain based on the order they are shown on the Smartphone App. There is no need for the tapping of the Jog Dial to connect to each of the headsets to form the chain. The "creator" connects all of the headsets together for a Group Intercom.
Also, could you please explain what the "8 way chat" option discussed in section 20.9 of the manual does and what it means to have it "Optimized" for either small or large groups.
When disabled, the 8-way intercom feature is for optimizing the performance between 4 or less headsets in a conference intercom by reducing the range between them. When enabled, the 8-way intercom feature allows 5 or more connected headsets in a conference intercom but the performance between each of them is less optimized.
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Thank you for your answers. I think I'm finally getting my head around this more but there are still a few things that I don't quite grasp.
In regard to the question:
And does it also mean that so long as each pair of devices is within range of each other than the entire chain could extend such that the first and last device are no longer within range?
Yes. But, the range between each connected headset depends on the number of headsets in the Group Intercom.When you say range (between connected pairs) is affected by the number in the group do you specifically mean the range is affected by the Enabling/Disabling of the "Eight-way Intercom" setting, hence groups with 5 or more members have reduced range while groups of 4 or less have more, or is there another way in which group numbers affect range?
And:
Also, why is the length restricted to 8 for the 20s and only 4 for the SPH10H-FM?
The SPH10H-FM and other headsets that are limited to 4 connections do not have the processing power to handle more than their specific number of connections so they have a limitation.I understand that the SPH10H-FM and 20s can only "remember" 4 and 8 paired devices respectively but when connected in a 'group chain' each device is only connected to the device 'ahead' and 'behind'. I would have thought this would mean that each device would only need to "know" about it's 2 'neighbours' so the chain should be able to grow indefinitely? Is this not how it works? I can appreciate that hooking up such a chain is a laborious process but is it not possible?
Also, I am still a little hazy on the trade off between the 4 and 8 way intercom setting. I'm kind of getting the impression the 'optimization' is a trade-off between voice quality and range but I don't quite get why, nor what it has to do with the number of people in the group. Do all members of the group need to have their device set to the same value? As in if 3 of the 4 members in a group have 8 Way Chat disabled but the 4th has it enabled would they still be able to connect as a group? And likewise, what would happen if a member of a 5+ group failed to activate the setting on there device. Would they be unable to join the group?
Thank you for your patience with this.
All the best,
Slarti.0 -
When you say range (between connected pairs) is affected by the number in the group do you specifically mean the range is affected by the Enabling/Disabling of the "Eight-way Intercom" setting, hence groups with 5 or more members have reduced range while groups of 4 or less have more, or is there another way in which group numbers affect range?
The headsets that are connected together with Eight-way intercom, have a reduced range between each of them compared to the range that 4 or less connected headsets would have when the Eight-way intercom setting has been disabled. Also after a certain number of headsets are connected, like more 4, then the rage between become less and less the more headsets are added in the chain.
I understand that the SPH10H-FM and 20s can only "remember" 4 and 8 paired devices respectively but when connected in a 'group chain' each device is only connected to the device 'ahead' and 'behind'. I would have thought this would mean that each device would only need to "know" about it's 2 'neighbours' so the chain should be able to grow indefinitely? Is this not how it works? I can appreciate that hooking up such a chain is a laborious process but is it not possible?
This is correct and it is possible however we recommend 4 headsets in a chain for the SPH10H-FM and 8 headsets for the 20S because extending beyond those numbers means that the connection between all of the headsets becomes more and more unstable and the headsets will not stay connected together consistently.
Also, I am still a little hazy on the trade off between the 4 and 8 way intercom setting. I'm kind of getting the impression the 'optimization' is a trade-off between voice quality and range but I don't quite get why, nor what it has to do with the number of people in the group. Do all members of the group need to have their device set to the same value? As in if 3 of the 4 members in a group have 8 Way Chat disabled but the 4th has it enabled would they still be able to connect as a group? And likewise, what would happen if a member of a 5+ group failed to activate the setting on there device. Would they be unable to join the group?
The trade off between having the Eight-way intercom setting enabled or disabled is when the setting is enabled it means that you can connect up to 8 headsets in a multi-way intercom/group intercom but the range between each of them is reduced. When the setting is disabled then it means that you can connect up to 4 headsets together and have full range between them. Secondly, if 3 if members in a group of 4 have the setting disabled and the 4th does not then they are still able to be connected together using Multi-way intercom or Group Intercom through the smartphone app. However, it is recommended to have all members of the intercom group have the Eight-way intercom setting the same (4 or less = disabled, 5 or more = enabled). Finally, if 5+ members of the group do not have the Eight-way intercom setting enabled then only 4 members of that group are able to be connected together for a Multi-way intercom but are able to connect together for a group intercom setup by the smartphone app.
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Along the same topic lines, will the 20s ever be able to set up a group intercom with SMH 10's? I can't seem to get the app to recognize any of the SMH10's in group setup that are shown as paired to my 20s.
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@Ken: Currently, the SMH10 doesn't have the same Bluetooth functionality of being able to use the Group Intercom feature which is unique to the 20S.
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is it possible to be an 10R on the groupm set on the smartphone app or the group intercom works only with 20s
i would like to buy the 10R because its less bulky and more watherproof but i would like to know if i could be added on my friends 20s group using a smartphone
thanks in advanced
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