New 20S
What's happening with the 20S? Been announced a while ago, but still no sign of when it will be available? I'm looking forward to upgrading from the SMH10, but when?
Any news?
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paring zumo to 20s must really be paired as a phone otherwise you will get crappy music quality. and the audio multitasking does not work at all.
when in intercom with my wife she get cut off by the zumo. when the zumo stops giving audio a couple of seconds later the 20s bleeps and I can talk to my wife again. ... this sure does NOT sound like audio multi tasking :(
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Up until now I have only used the 20S in my house. Learning the commands, trying different pairings and listen to the radio.... Today I had time for a little testrun. and found 3 things I thought I'd mention:
1] I noticed the radio is lame. I put it on preset 1 where I stored the main Dutch radio-frequency. As soon as I started to move, it totally lost the frequency, en nothing could be done to get ik back. Turn the radio of and on, and everything was fine.... for about 10 seconds. Then lost the frequency again (could hear only static). This was with the little antenna extended, and this is supposed to be the most powerfull broadcast-signal around here. I had the frequency-mode set to Europe.
2] I'm not sure if the 2 speakers are adequate. When driving at high speeds, and wearing earplugs, the sound could be a little louder. However, on full volume the speakers start clipping. Maybe at some day Sena can introduce "Elite" speakers as an option. (I get the first pair for free of course because it was my idea :D)
3] The different sound-sources all have their own volume-setting. The intercom, the radio, the voice-command-girl, your satnav, music comming from that satnav (which is another source then the satnav itself), etc. At first this seemed like a good idea, but now I'm no so sure. I constantly seem te be adjusting the several soundlevels. Driving from the city onto the highway, all the soudlevels have to be turned up. Leaving the highway all levels have to be turned down again. Maybe it's better to have one general-soundlevel, or perhaps make this a configuration-setting (Overall of Split volume-settings). Or set the different sound-levels in the configuration-menu and use the jog-dial to set the overall volume. Does that make any sense ?
Still happy with de 20S though.... :)
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Hey Mark - one of the things I found was that it is important that the speakers be aligned with your ear opening when the helmet is on. Volume will improve significantly as well as fidelity. I found this out feeling around inside my helmet where the speakers were in relationship to my ears. I noticed the speakers were offset quite a bit and when I aligned them, it all got quite better. Ear pockets on some helmets are quite large and speaker placement could be all wrong. Check it out. I agree with you the FM radio sensitivity is quite poor. Everything else is ok though. Still not sure if some of the features are all really worth the premium price over my SMH10 though. More riding experience with it will tell the tale for me
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Hi, Marc. Thanks for the post. With all of us together, we'll learn everything there is to know about these things.
I'm about 25 miles from most of the FM Radio transmitting antennas. In some areas of my lower back yard, I don't get any. In the house, I get quite a few (maybe all); but only if I turn my head a certain direction. (I've been wearing my helmet in the house a lot lately).
Haven't experienced the different sound level settings so much yet. But it can get confusing when changing from earbuds to helmet speakers and back. I have my helmet speakers set deep in the styrofoam helmet liner, directly over my ears. At over 40 mph, it's tough to understand talking over the ambient noise. But that's the way my 10R was as well. But when on the road on trips, I use earbuds; and they're absolutely wonderful. Bought a new set of Klipsch 4S (White) yesterday, they're better than my Entymotic 6's that I can't find. With the noise-blocking earbuds, I can fry my ears with volume! Have to be careful to turn volume(s) down or it'll make me jump. I don't wear earbuds in town because with them, I can't really hear my motor; much less traffic.
Leaving Friday AM on a long 10-day trip. I think the four of us will give the 20Ss a workout.
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FM reception get better when you let the speaker wire go over your head in the helmet instead of letting it run near the neck in the helmet.
but on the freeway..its terrible :') i prefer listening to the mp3's on my zumo :)
i'm using it every day now on route to work... makes me happy :D friday i'm off to luxemburg with my wife .. so then we can test the bike to bike communication some more :)0 -
As some of you may know an update for the Sena Device Manager is available so that you can connect your 20S. You can now update the firmware on the 20S to the recently announced v1.1.
Additionally, the iPhone app is now available on the iTunes store here: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sena/id888785838?l=ko&ls=1&mt=8
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Thank you Sena
- could connect 20S to Imac
- Updated firmware to 1.1
- Installed Iphone app and connected with 20S
- FM-Radio: NOT WORKING AT ALL
- Voice commands: Probably it's me but i have to "shout very loud" and the only thing i could get activated was "FM-Radio" 8-S
I hope an update is provided soon to get the 20S working the way it is advertised.
Including a working FM-Radio, being the only reason to upgrade from SMH10B to 20S (is there any other reason that can justify the upgrade???) 8-S0 -
As far as reasons for upgrading from the SMH10 go, these are mine:-
- Multi audio, so I can hear sat nav instructions at the same time as when on an intercom call. Desperately needed when using a smartphone for sat nav.
- Output socket for ear buds. This is another MAJOR reason to want to upgrade.
FM is of no real interest to me as I believe it will be essentially useless due to reception problems. If it works at all, it'll be a plus, but not bothered either way.
Oh and the 20S looks nicer:-)
None of the above however is based on experience since I still have not received my 20S. Should arrive at the UK distributor today, but I'm not holding my breath.
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well.. the multi audio ... doesn't really work .. it still switches between audio inputs :X
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Several reasons for me to upgrade from the SMH-10R to the 20S:
1. Jog dial. The three buttons worked, but it was a bit cumbersome with gloves on. Took too much concentration while riding.
2. Auxiliary audio input. This is really a surprise, I didn't know it was coming. I can plug the tiny cable into my Harley and hear AM/FM/CB/WX radio.
3. Phone App (and this is just the first release; greater things to come, I'm sure)
4. Audio output socket for earbuds: This is a big one for me. I had to make an adapter cable for the 10R to utilize my earbuds.
5. Voice commands: This is really good. I can tell the Sena Lady to go to music, Stereo (from the Garmin), next track/previous track, etc.; without having to fumble through the Zumo's screens. Huge improvement for me. Sometimes, I do have to yell "Hello Sena". It's hard to get her attention.
6. Individual and group intercom: Will test that one on our trip beginning tomorrow.
7. Ambient: Haven't used this one yet, but with earbuds, the ambient will be wonderful. I'm thinking that the 20S must have an external microphone that picks up ambient sounds (like people trying to talk to me before I can remove my helmet and earbuds).
These are huge improvements and (for me) totally justify the upgrade.
FM radio isn't a biggie for me. Never really expected much from an FM radio that's about the size of my thumb. Someone mentioned that routing the right-side helmet speaker wire over the top of the helmet versus around inside the back helps.
I think I'm going to miss the VOX sensitivity of the 10R. Some people I ride with have loud motorcycles and we ride side by side. Those motorcycles used to trigger the VOX on my 10R until I found the VOX sensitivity control.
I do wish the 20S had an auto-OFF timeout timer. The Uclear had that and it kept me from running down batteries. If no Bluetooth connection or control input for 30 minutes, turn off.
Ken
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@WIlliam: Do you have the Audio Multitasking function enabled through the Configuration Menu?
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@ sena... yes audio multitasking is enabled.... I've disabled it and enabled it a couple of times just to be sure... but the whole multitasking thing wont work in my setup.
iphone to zumo660 and then zumo660 to 20s paired as a phone. this is the only way to get good BT audio. when I pair mu zumo660 as a GPS device or second phone I get crappy music quality and I do not get to control the music through the sena headset.0 -
I am at a loss to understand why anyone wold want an iPhone AND a dedicated SatNav device. Just run a SatNav app on the iPhone. I use CoPilot, but both TomTom and Garmin have apps available and there's a myriad others. Why carry around 2 devices, when one will do it all? Carrying stuff around on a bike, having to affix mounts for them and charging cables etc, there's no way I'd want to have to do it all twice with space etc such a premium on a bike. A smartphone (iPhone or Android) on its own can do everything, why lug around a second device that can do no more than what the smartphone can do?
In case anyone is confused, a smartphone will usually have some form of mapping app(s) that may also provide routing functions with spoken directions, but they need to download all the map data and that is certainly not always possible while travelling. But the apps to which I am referring above are genuine SatNav apps that already contain ALL the mapping data they require so you can travel around without incurring ANY data charges as there is NO data to download. The apps are sophisticated and fully functional and in many cases better than a dedicated alternative. So why duplicate?
Tomorrow I'm heading off on a 10 day trip around Europe. My iPhone provides communication, music etc AND is a SatNav that functions better than ANY other dedicated SatNav device I've ever tried and if I ever did want to instead try TomTom or Garmin or iGo etc, hey, I can just download a different app and you can't do THAT on a dedicated device. With 10 overnight stops at hotels which involve lugging my bag to and from the room etc, why would i want to be carrying another electronics box that does no more than what my iPhone can do, not to mention where on earth I could mount it on the bike. I designed the dash layout on my bike to accommodate the iPhone (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uh3u9r7kon7xtp/FFX_3.jpg) so it's 'integrated' and is readily visible etc. Trying to mount another device, stuck up on the handlebars etc, no thanks. Why would I.
Sorry if I seem to labour the point, but sometimes I think smartphone users seem to have no real idea of what their devices are truly capable.
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well I drive a BMW R1200 GS Adventure.. so carrying an extra device does not concern me :')
I have my zumo660 as dedicated gps.. with special motor maps (special maps for the garmin and tom tom that calculate roads specially for bikers. and I had my zumo before I got my shiny new iphone.
if I want to use the iphone as gps ect I need to buy a new cradle and provide continues power for it.... now I don't :)0 -
Ken Gillet: I have an iPhone4, 8GB without roaming....
That means: no processorcapability to even considder this option
No memory to even considder this option
No maps as soon as I cross the boarder
Device not suitable to ride in the sun
Device not suitable to ride in the rain
Available apps are a joke...
Hmm....maybe I'll stick to my Zumo for a while.
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Well Marc Telkamp, you'd be wrong on almost every count. Certainly the available apps are far from being a joke, you're so badly misinformed there it's not funny.
I've done both. I've tried touring with a dedicated SatNav and now for the last few years with just the iPhone. It's a no brainer and of course why the dedicated SatNav market is dwindling as fast as the smartphone market grows.
But to each his own. I'm just saying that carrying a dedicated SatNav IS a waste of time, but if you want to keep on doin' it, feel free.
Of more importance to me is that I still don't have a 20S. Due in at the UK distributors yesterday, but still no sign of them. If they aren't delivered within the next few hours, we won't have them for our trip:-(
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"I am at a loss to understand why anyone wold want an iPhone" 0 -
Well Ken, let's just say we set a new standard on disagreeing. :) To each his own indeed.
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Annoyingly I've just received confirmation that the 20S delivery has been delayed in Belgium and will not be here till next Wednesday. But we set off on our trip tomorrow, so we'll have to do without them.
I must say I'm very disappointed by the way Sena has released this new product. Normally I wouldn't be so concerned, but with the imminent trip, timing was crucial and not only have there been big delays before the launch, but it's been frustrating in the extreme to hear that many customers (no doubt in the US) have had theirs for almost 2 weeks, while the UK shipment is now still stuck in Belgium and won't arrive for another 4 days (at least). How can they have allowed such a massive disparity in the supply dates. One can only conclude Sena don't care about Europe (well, the UK at least).
As I said, disappointing.
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Sena says that the 20s is able to pair two phones.
Do they mean that you can use them at the same time?
Or only one at at ime?
I ask because I want to use my Midland G8 BT radio set with in-built Bluetooth.
I tried it for hours but didn't get it working. I paired it as a second phone.
I can use the radi set until a phone call arrives.From that moment on the connection to the radio set ist broken...
Has somebody a hint for me?
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@ Kenn Gillet
Ken you are misinformed, the 20S is already more then 2 weeks available at www.starcom.
eu
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Has anyone been able to 2nd phone pair a GPS device successfully, or any other HFP device? Because my 20s just wont do it, it is found and tries to pair but "cannot pair". 1st phone pairing is ok. I am trying to get an answer from Sena help desk but answers are slow.
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Experiences with the 20S so far: The Ambient feature is extremely useful. At a border patrol stop ion I-10 in New Mexico, the officer asked questions. I didn't have to take my helmet off and earbuds out to converse with him. BUT, the ambient audio has way yay too musc base response. Harley engine, wind noise, etc overpower voice. We tried three way group. Never got it to work after more than half hour of trying. Two of us were able to talk using group, but never got the third in. Too many beeps. Three riding together zumos chained together. Each time any one of us touched his Zumo touch screen, rest of us would hear a beep. Jog dial turns too easily. At 84 mph (speed limit at 80), wind turns jog dial. I had to turn back down about every 20 seconds. It would rotate to maximum and the Max audio beeps would alert. Communications would stop. Riding along and no one talking for a while. Hmmmm, I talk to say something. "Intercom failed, try again later". Try and try to both other riders. No work. Turn 20s off and back on, intercom worked great first attempt. This scenario happened several times a day over the last two days. There's more feedback, later. 0 -
Should have read: Ambient has way too much bass response. Posting these things before I forget. No doubt the three of us are going through. A learning curve, but the observations noted above seem valid. 0 -
well... back again from a very nice weekend touring in luxemburg, bergium and germany with my wife.
intercom works very good up to 140 km/h... 130-140 you will need to repeat some sentences before the other side understands you :') .
range is also nice but it wil never ever get the 2 km's and when driving in de mountains it wil be more like 500 meters ... and when out of sight... it means out of range! so speaking to each other works perfect but you will have to be in line of sight.
when sena says the battery is running low... you'de better get your powerbank and hook it up because 2 min. later the 20s is dead.
but i'm loving the feature that lets u use the 20s while charging. :D
for the rest no problems whatso ever with making and keeping intercoms of jogdails that live their own lives. but i'm still very doubtfull that the unit will survive riding under a big rain cloud.
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By the looks of today I may have a good idea of how the 20S handles rough weather...
LOVE the voice commands, not having to reach up can be really handy in certain situations.
So far I have noticed the battery seems very weak. This is so far only a mild observation, as I may have accidentally left the unit turned on at work or when I arrived home, but I have only had it last through 3 and a half of my commutes, so to work, home from work, back to work the next day and only half way home again. The commute is 25-35 mins. Starting real testing today.
This is only listening to music, have not yet received a call or used navigation / intercom. This was before the first firmware upgrade, have only installed that today.
Had also noticed sometimes when charging (even left all night), light would never go blue. (only had the device 2 weeks from today, only seen it go blue twice before, firmware update and it has just gone blue to tell me it's full ;) )
In Perth, Western Australia, have not had any problems at all with FM radio, but so far only had it in metro area.
The SMH-5 I had been using previously would only require charging every week, even though sometimes I accidentally left it on in the office or at home. And it didn't even blink at a torrential downpour...
I have noticed if you don't have the speakers dead centre to your ears, there is a major drop off in volume / quality, really noticed it when I took my helmet off while music was playing and it got really really good as they moved over my ears. Re-adjusted that instant :P
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Have used it a few times now and have the following comments.
FM Radio is pathetic. I have a Nolan N104 and a Scalarider G9 both with FM and they pick up the local FM station here fine. The Sena 20S nothing. Twist the head in what is a normally strong area and get a very faint signal that you cannot really make anything out of except it is music of some kind.
Speakers are very nice and playing music from the iPhone is nice and clear.
Audio Multitasking another fail. Does not work. Playing music from the phone linked as a mobile phone and the GPS linked using the GPS pairing. Each time you press a button on the GPS or it announces something then bye bye to the music for 2-4 seconds. There is no reducing the volume as it said happens.
Voice control. Maybe the Kiwi accent but works only in a quiet room. Once moving at any speed at all then does not understand and keeps repeating "say a command" for 3 times before cancelling.
Not really impressed with it at all so far. If the scalarider had the speakers the sena does then I would go back to that.
Really needs automatic gain as well. Listening to the GPS at speed is fine but then slow down in town and all of a sudden a blast in the ear. Again the scalarider does this well.
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Has anybody been able to pair a GPS unit as 2nd phone? I cannot pair any of these devices as 2nd phone, some have A2DP, but all have a phone profile or HFP. I have tried 4 different GPS units, Tomtom, Garmin, 2 different Chinese waterproof bike GPS units and none of them will pair. They will pair as 1st phone no problems, but not 2nd, and they should because they have a "Hands Free Profile". So I'm asking if other people can or can't do it.
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Nimac - I've been able to pair an SR10 two way radio adapter to the 20s as a 2nd device. Are you following the 2nd pairing instructions properly? That's where I was having initial problems. For the second phone you need to pair using the jog dial. Press it for 6 seconds till you see rapid flashing and hear multiple beeps then immediately tap the phone button (within 2 seconds). Should change to rapid blue flashing and you hear double beeps. A voice prompt should say "Second mobile phone pairing". Once that is started then turn on your second device and place it into pairing mode. It can take awhile for both units to then pair up, sometimes 30 seconds or more so be patient. If it doesn't pair up within 3 minutes the 20s cancels and goes back into standby. Good luck. Ken K
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anybody had interference issues with ear buds? Just opened a ticket for this problem. Speakers all fine. Plug in ear buds and a rhythmic tick and hiss. Started out on just one. Switched buds, no change so not the buds. Switched bases, no change. Must be "my" device? Upgraded firmware on both, now they both do it! Somewhat quieter mind you. It is definitely NOT the ear buds. 0
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